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red zebra
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 2598
Location: Whaur the bridies are
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 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| TxRover wrote: | | red zebra wrote: | The quip goes that it is relatively easy to take out £1m by being the owner of a football club. All you have to do is first put in £2m.
I don't see overseas investment as realistic unless they are willing to lose money until we are in the top league unless, of course, the German model along the road proves to be successful and becomes the blueprint for foreign ownership of small Scottish clubs.
But as others have said, these offers are nothing new and the club has lost out on a lot of investment, going back to the post '97 season slump because of the way it was structured that no one person or company could own it outright, and that puts investors off.
Neil M's experience is indicative of the way big companies work, they need to make money and consolidating or centralising major operational roles and processes is often how they do it, not a model that would work with a football club however. |
It can work, but the model is not doable in fitba. The model would be to have a team at each level, much as the MLB does in America. In that model, they have Rookie, Rookie-Advanced, Short-Season A, A, High A, AA and AAA levels of baseball, and almost every major league team has a team at all seven levels, and move players between them and the big league team. In fitba, that would be like someone owning Celtic, Partick, Queens Park and Albion Rovers…but wanting them to stay at the same level they are at. You could also add in a couple of lower teams, a Lowland League and a WoSL team… |
As you say the model is not doable but that is because of the rules re holding stakes in more than one club causing a potential conflict of interest and lets face it, the OF have been treating the rest of Scottish football like that for decades 
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Heilan Rover
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 597
Location: Lorient
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Does all of this not work simply because the meagre money that is actually in Scottish Football is ill divided with the big wealthy teams getting the lions share and the likes of us fighting for the scraps? In other words, the Haves get most and the Have Nots get next to He Haw.
A bit like British society I guess!
However cognisance has to be taken of our very small Fan Base. No business model works when income is limited, and sadly we may be restricted to putting the team on the Park we can afford. If we cannot attract more Fans i.e. paying customers, then we could find ourselves as part time, playing in a lower division; and that scenario might be the best we get, with a possible alternative being Liquidation! There is not a potential market of Rovers fans that would entice a rich investor. Unless of course, that investor is a Rovers fan themselves!
Maybe the John Sim bashers will now start to understand his worth to the club? |
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WillieKirk
Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 1954
Location: Portobello
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Good points HR. Have to agree with all this and of course the peer pressure of younger potential fans as projected income source for the future. Even though my grand nephews train at SP they still support Celtic and have no conception of how or why that is just wrong (IMO). Not sure how or if that can change given the division in opinions and the characteristics of society. My friend - did a plan for the RRFC board a few years ago re the fan base - current and future. The result was depressing in terms of growth for the future. Although I can’t give exact details because I can’t remember them precisely the outcome was that we are close to our maximum already.
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Hankey_Bannister
Joined: 29 May 2021
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Armagh Rover wrote: | | Anybody got Mike Ashley's number |
Eh. no thanks. |
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Vinnie
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8223
Location: None Of Your Business
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently planning for the Hub behind North Stand has been withdrawn
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wellyboot
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 2564
Location: Aberdeenshire
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| So the bbc report talks about scaling back football operations and looking to break even from the 2005 model. Why has it taking 17 years for this to come to the fore or am I misreading or misunderstanding? |
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Neil M
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2590
Location: Aberdeen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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The former Kirkcaldy District has a far bigger population than many outsiders - and even some locals - realise. About 150,000, with over 50,000 in Kirkcaldy itself. This was not lost on Jimmy Nicholl, who took those figures to the then board, when he asked for full-time football. There are other clubs on the periphery, but in my own experience, Old Firm fans seem to ridiculously outnumber us in our own area. Televised football (from outside of Scotland) is also huge competition for clubs like ours these days. Younger kids might not associate so much with the club, as we are often seen as a bit of a joke - although many still do follow Rovers.
If we somehow did get the right investment and subsequent success, there is no reason why we could not draw in neutrals and win new generation of young fans. Clubs in the Premiership have done so in much less populous catchment areas. They have maintained it. I often wonder what might have happened in the late '90s if we had done so too. |
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TxRover
Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 3508
Location: North Texas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Heilan Rover wrote: | Does all of this not work simply because the meagre money that is actually in Scottish Football is ill divided with the big wealthy teams getting the lions share and the likes of us fighting for the scraps? In other words, the Haves get most and the Have Nots get next to He Haw.
A bit like British society I guess!
However cognisance has to be taken of our very small Fan Base. No business model works when income is limited, and sadly we may be restricted to putting the team on the Park we can afford. If we cannot attract more Fans i.e. paying customers, then we could find ourselves as part time, playing in a lower division; and that scenario might be the best we get, with a possible alternative being Liquidation! There is not a potential market of Rovers fans that would entice a rich investor. Unless of course, that investor is a Rovers fan themselves!
Maybe the John Sim bashers will now start to understand his worth to the club? |
The SPFL in its many iterations, has much to answer for. In the end, the OF has really ended any hope of anyone else sharing the goodies, and will never willingly give up their effective monopoly. A wholesale rethink of fitba might come up with a way to make this work in a reasonable manner, but not as long as the OF are involved. If we could unload the OF to English Football or some other league, there would be a chance for a really interesting league competing at a somewhat lower, if more enjoyable, level. All a rich investor can do currently is get a team top six competitive.
On that front, I’m not entirely sold that Sim has a massive worth to the club anymore. True, he stepped up when needed, but he could have used his connections and knowledge to help redesign the club to function within its resources and budget and transitioned the club to fan or community ownership…that ship has likely sailed. |
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Wolfman Jack
Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 10644
Location: Pawtucket Brewery
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| TxRover wrote: | | Heilan Rover wrote: | Does all of this not work simply because the meagre money that is actually in Scottish Football is ill divided with the big wealthy teams getting the lions share and the likes of us fighting for the scraps? In other words, the Haves get most and the Have Nots get next to He Haw.
A bit like British society I guess!
However cognisance has to be taken of our very small Fan Base. No business model works when income is limited, and sadly we may be restricted to putting the team on the Park we can afford. If we cannot attract more Fans i.e. paying customers, then we could find ourselves as part time, playing in a lower division; and that scenario might be the best we get, with a possible alternative being Liquidation! There is not a potential market of Rovers fans that would entice a rich investor. Unless of course, that investor is a Rovers fan themselves!
Maybe the John Sim bashers will now start to understand his worth to the club? |
The SPFL in its many iterations, has much to answer for. In the end, the OF has really ended any hope of anyone else sharing the goodies, and will never willingly give up their effective monopoly. A wholesale rethink of fitba might come up with a way to make this work in a reasonable manner, but not as long as the OF are involved. If we could unload the OF to English Football or some other league, there would be a chance for a really interesting league competing at a somewhat lower, if more enjoyable, level. All a rich investor can do currently is get a team top six competitive.
On that front, I’m not entirely sold that Sim has a massive worth to the club anymore. True, he stepped up when needed, but he could have used his connections and knowledge to help redesign the club to function within its resources and budget and transitioned the club to fan or community ownership…that ship has likely sailed. |
Duopoly
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Hope he's got plenty Rovers action to comment on tonight.... |
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Castle
Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Posts: 4928
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Neil M wrote: | The former Kirkcaldy District has a far bigger population than many outsiders - and even some locals - realise. About 150,000, with over 50,000 in Kirkcaldy itself. This was not lost on Jimmy Nicholl, who took those figures to the then board, when he asked for full-time football. There are other clubs on the periphery, but in my own experience, Old Firm fans seem to ridiculously outnumber us in our own area. Televised football (from outside of Scotland) is also huge competition for clubs like ours these days. Younger kids might not associate so much with the club, as we are often seen as a bit of a joke - although many still do follow Rovers.
If we somehow did get the right investment and subsequent success, there is no reason why we could not draw in neutrals and win new generation of young fans. Clubs in the Premiership have done so in much less populous catchment areas. They have maintained it. I often wonder what might have happened in the late '90s if we had done so too. |
And in the season or so after the board granted Jimmy Nicholl's full time football wish the club were in serious financial trouble and Alex Penman had to come along and bail us out. Of course his reward for this came a couple of years later with fans standing on the terraces hurling abuse at him after Jimmy Nicholl left. Nine years later it was Sim's chance to bail us out and after 17 years it looks like he has had enough. Probably fed up of all the gratitude he gets shown by the Rovers faithful.
On home crowds a smidge over one thousand we are top end of league one (or seaside league as we like to sneeringly label it) with occasional visits into the championship. Anything else depends on the backing of individuals willing to invest or more likely donate their hard earned to the club and why would any of them want to do that when it's all downside financially and little upside emotionally?
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Strathallan Rover
Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 651
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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It's all heating up now. Fife Today has an interview with Chairman Steve McDonald saying the could be looking to move on our highest earners in January and replace them with cheaper signings to balance the books, although we're not too far away from achieving that this season. Everything is crossed for beating Linlithgow in the cup and landing a big team in the next round, Rangers or Celtic away.
Also, there is genuine interest from England, Switzerland and Hong Kong regarding buying the club, the price is a tidy £3m. This is going to be a bumpy ride folks. |
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Armagh Rover
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 5742
Location: Nottinghamshire
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Strathallan Rover wrote: | It's all heating up now. Fife Today has an interview with Chairman Steve McDonald saying the could be looking to move on our highest earners in January and replace them with cheaper signings to balance the books, although we're not too far away from achieving that this season. Everything is crossed for beating Linlithgow in the cup and landing a big team in the next round, Rangers or Celtic away.
Also, there is genuine interest from England, Switzerland and Hong Kong regarding buying the club, the price is a tidy £3m. This is going to be a bumpy ride folks. |
The sooner the current incumbents are out the better, new owners and board might just be what the doctor ordered, thanks for all you've done guys, but too many mistakes have been made |
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Franco
Joined: 10 Oct 2019
Posts: 1196
Location: kirkcaldy
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone has to read the Fife Today article for themselves! Certainly I can't summarise it in order to express the logic behind it, as I don't follow the strategy.
Sell our best players in January : which players whose contracts extend beyond May 2023 have a significant value? Or is it just to reduce the wage bill ?
Try to identify players available in January who are cheaper but raise the team to fourth
place ? Good luck with all that!
Vague talk of investors from outside Scotland willing to pay up to £ 3 million? Really?
Yet despite that, please send funds to The Rovers.
Presumably I am not interpreting the article correctly?
Oh ps let's put extra pressure on the players ( including those who think they might be sold and concerned about that ) and beat Linlithgow Rose ......hoping to land Celtic in the Cup again ! |
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Vinnie
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8223
Location: None Of Your Business
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Neil M
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2590
Location: Aberdeen
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Move on our best players and finish fourth? Hmm. Makes you wonder if this has been getting to the players - maybe for a while. They would have known more than we did. |
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