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Heilan Rover
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 600
Location: Lorient
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 Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:54 am Post subject: Goalkeepers and Penalty kicks? |
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I'm confused 
OK. I accept I now live most of my life in a general state of confusion, but this one has me stumped. So help from the football rules experts amongst you would be very much appreciated.
It concerns the rules about Goalkeepers and when they can move during a penalty kick:
My understanding is that a Keeper must remain behind the goal line until the penalty taker has struck the ball. Is this the case, or have I imagined the rule?
I seem to remember, quite recently, a penalty kick having to be retaken because the keeper moved over his line before the ball was kicked. (Sorry, can't remember the game It could even have been one of ours?)
IF this is the law/rule, why were Spain not allowed to retake their penalty against the England women's team yesterday? It is VERY clear from the camera shot behind the goal, that when Earps made the penalty save, she took a fairly large step over her line BEFORE the Spaniard kicked the ball.
As I said, any help to clarify the situation will be much appreciated.
P.S. I do hope my interpretation of the penalty taking rule is correct. Otherwise, it is yet another indication that my mind is slipping gradually into the bewilderment abyss. |
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Cuparman
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 1872
Location: Irvine
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Goalkeepers and Penalty kicks? |
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| Heilan Rover wrote: | I'm confused
OK. I accept I now live most of my life in a general state of confusion, but this one has me stumped. So help from the football rules experts amongst you would be very much appreciated.
It concerns the rules about Goalkeepers and when they can move during a penalty kick:
My understanding is that a Keeper must remain behind the goal line until the penalty taker has struck the ball. Is this the case, or have I imagined the rule?
I seem to remember, quite recently, a penalty kick having to be retaken because the keeper moved over his line before the ball was kicked. (Sorry, can't remember the game It could even have been one of ours?)
IF this is the law/rule, why were Spain not allowed to retake their penalty against the England women's team yesterday? It is VERY clear from the camera shot behind the goal, that when Earps made the penalty save, she took a fairly large step over her line BEFORE the Spaniard kicked the ball.
As I said, any help to clarify the situation will be much appreciated.
P.S. I do hope my interpretation of the penalty taking rule is correct. Otherwise, it is yet another indication that my mind is slipping gradually into the bewilderment abyss. |
My understanding is that they can move on and along the line whenever they wish but cannot leave the line with either foot until the ball is kicked.
IF.....this is the case, then where VAR is employed this rule should be enforced.
The lines person does move to the line to watch from the side but to be fair, the human eye cannot watch the ball being struck at the same time as looking at the goalie movement.
It is something that is oft discussed but rarely proven without VAR replays......unfortunately.š.
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Heilan Rover
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 600
Location: Lorient
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for confirming this Cuparman. I Guess bewilderment is slightly farther away than I thought.
The camera shot from behind the goal most definitely shows her stepping over the line before the ball is kicked. VAR maybe away for the pies at this point? |
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TxRover
Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 3510
Location: North Texas, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Goalkeepers and Penalty kicks? |
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| Heilan Rover wrote: | I'm confused
OK. I accept I now live most of my life in a general state of confusion, but this one has me stumped. So help from the football rules experts amongst you would be very much appreciated.
It concerns the rules about Goalkeepers and when they can move during a penalty kick:
My understanding is that a Keeper must remain behind the goal line until the penalty taker has struck the ball. Is this the case, or have I imagined the rule?
I seem to remember, quite recently, a penalty kick having to be retaken because the keeper moved over his line before the ball was kicked. (Sorry, can't remember the game It could even have been one of ours?)
IF this is the law/rule, why were Spain not allowed to retake their penalty against the England women's team yesterday? It is VERY clear from the camera shot behind the goal, that when Earps made the penalty save, she took a fairly large step over her line BEFORE the Spaniard kicked the ball.
As I said, any help to clarify the situation will be much appreciated.
P.S. I do hope my interpretation of the penalty taking rule is correct. Otherwise, it is yet another indication that my mind is slipping gradually into the bewilderment abyss. |
The current text of Law 14.1 states āThe defending goalkeeper must remain on the goal line, facing the kicker, between the goalposts, until the ball is kicked. The goalkeeper must not behave in a way that unfairly distracts the kicker, e.g. delay the taking of the kick or touch the goalposts, crossbar or goal net.ā
14.2 advises the following with regard to a keepe violation:
āthe goalkeeper offends:
if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded
if the ball misses the goal or rebounds from the crossbar or goalpost(s), the kick is only retaken if the goalkeeperās offence clearly impacted on the kicker
if the ball is prevented from entering the goal by the goalkeeper, the kick is retakenā
Note that, by the same token, any encroachment by the other players is grounds for a rekick, depending on the result too. The current interpretation is a nebulous zone of not too much violation of the Law. As itās written, the first retake would be a warning to the keeper, the second requires a caution. Meanwhile, any encroaching attacking player should be an indirect kick and chalking off the goal. There is also this pair of gems, again in Law 14.2:
āa player of both teams offends, the kick is retaken unless a player commits a more serious offence (e.g. 'illegal' feinting)
both the goalkeeper and the kicker commit an offence at the same time, the kicker is cautioned and play restarts with an indirect free kick to the defending teamā
So the reality is any strict enforcement of the Laws of the Game would result in ejected keepers and chalked off kicks. The enforcement zone seems to be more of a balance of whatās fair, as long as the violation isnāt too great.
https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/the-penalty-kick/#introduction |
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embow
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 13026
Location: Lybster: O'er 'e Ord and far frae Fife
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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England were awarded a retake in its first group game because the keeper was well of her line to save and VAR spotted this and ordered the retake. The only goal of the game came from the retaken penalty.
The England keeper saved the Spanish penalty in the final yet was well off her line before the Spanish foot connected with the ball. VAR would have seen this but didn't intervene. This was fairly obvious from the back of the net camera especially on the slo mo.
Even my poor eyesight noticed the encroachment.
You have to wonder why VAR didn't call this one.š¤
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Cuparman
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 1872
Location: Irvine
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Incompetence or possibly favouritism  .
The whole idea of VAR is to make the game fairer and correct.
What I do not understand is this rule about a clear and or obvious error by a ref must happen before VAR CAN suggest a ref looks again.
With the multitude of cameras used I would think that VAR would be most likely in MOST circumstances to come to a correct decision.
ie. Refs make mistakes and that is forgivable, however if VAR is sure he has erred, then surely they can/ must intervene.
Regarding spot kicks, Methinks VAR should be the arbiters NOT refs as regards goal line movement.
After all, you may well have two eyes but they cannae watch the line and the moment the ball is kicked simultaneously.
Whoād be a ref eh 
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Jim Foy
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 723
Location: Kirkcaldy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sure it is ok as long as at least one foot is still on the line when the ball is kicked, and that appears to be the reason given HERE |
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badpress139
Joined: 19 May 2015
Posts: 2618
Location: Glenrothes
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| There is a shot where she has one foot on the line before diving outwards at the time of the ball being struck. |
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scotty
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 9065
Location: Almost Dysart.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Did this happen yesterday?
Forgive me, I've been on nightshift and although I picked up the fact (mostly down to 5 days of the BBC excessively OTT coverage) that the Lionesses were into the WWC final, I haven't seen very much since.
I assumed it hadn't been played yet,
A World Cup final aye? I thought there'd be more in the news about that.
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Cuparman
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 1872
Location: Irvine
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim Foy wrote: | | I'm sure it is ok as long as at least one foot is still on the line when the ball is kicked, and that appears to be the reason given HERE |
Read that...clear as mud
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Heilan Rover
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 600
Location: Lorient
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim Foy wrote: | | I'm sure it is ok as long as at least one foot is still on the line when the ball is kicked, and that appears to be the reason given HERE |
Thanks for this Jim. So I guess, like the ball, the whole Goalkeeper has to be over the line?
In my opinion, the Goalkeeper has quite an advantage by taking even one step over the line toward the ball? It's not like FIFA to have strange rules though........ Is it?
If I were a Goalkeeper I might now be tempted to take up my stance for a penalty with a foot over the line already. I wonder what reaction this would get from Referees? |
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