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Slump
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 3494
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WillieKirk wrote:
Two posts from different points of view. agree another year in championship is no bad thing but also agree we could benefit from being in premiership. What I would prefer is a 2-3 league structure playing home and away instead of 4 games against opposition that like us is pretty mediocre at the moment. Would really like to see Corr and Masson given more game time. Play our own players rather than loanees first. I understand there will be clauses aplenty with respect to game time for the loanees or is that a misconception.

Like every trough a crest should follow. Hopefully starting on Friday. I hope IM selects a team that can defend as well as attack.


I suspect the whole discussion of loanee play clauses is pretty much bullpucky. There’s simply no way, except with an absolute baller, that any manager would agree to that. Having said that, any manager worth his salt will prioritize loanee play to the extent practical, as it will influence his next chance for a loanee.

In the Championship, we’re in the nasty no-man’s land of squad too small and completion level too high for many young players to be loaned or played easily. That’s why a reserve team is critical to us going forward. It would also allow players like Watson to more easily get dribs and drab’s of playing time as they work back to fitness. Gullan could have been playing regular games with the reserves, Masson, Corr and Hannah…Mitchell…Arnott…all players who would have benefitted.

It would also help the RRCF and their football program, giving young lads opportunities they might not get otherwise. Remember the talk about the Dundee bounce game, and some RRCF players getting a chance to play a bit? It’s all part of a larger puzzle that this new management team are constructing at RRFC.

As for the idea of a 12-20-10 or some such league structure, it’s a nice thought, but unlikely to happen. If anything, a 10-16-16 would be more likely, but that’s costing lower than top level teams 3 home games and shrinking the top level. Of course, it would allow a January break to be installed at those same levels. With the push to expand, maybe a 12-18-18 would find favour though (but I hate the 12 team top level schedule hijinks).
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red zebra



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 2594
Location: Whaur the bridies are

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TxRover wrote:
So if I’m reading that correctly, the suggestion by RZ is Barrowman and Co have decided to throw the season by not playing the young lads…

Perhaps poorly worded but it would be easier to take that path by playing more experienced players out of position. I would rather not win the league and develop these youngsters for the future than the way we are doing it

Deep breath all, deep breath!

There is no conspiracy to avoid promotion.

There would be no need to rip up the pitch for next year, the ground rules for 2024-2025 are already published and do NOT require only natural grass in the Premiership.
And we are suddenly going to find the budget for all of this in 18 months? We will do lucky to break even this season or have you forgotten the debt of previous seasons? Come on Tex, you love your numbers and stats, you cannot argue that (even with home gates of 3000+) we will suddenly become a cash rich club in a season or two Hope Barrowman has got the lottery on

Saying we only have Stanton and Byrne as Premiership quality players and would need a wholesale rebuild is ludicrous (IYHO). The bottom four to six of the Premiership is generally comprised of teams that would be right at home in the Championship if you dropped a couple of their top players and then made them reduce their squad to 22-25 players.

So basically what I just said then? Take out Stanton and Byrne and you have a championship team

Remember Hamilton? That was a “top level” team that dropped into the Championship, and sank like a stone. Management is key, and we have a pretty decent team in place.

Soundbites don't win leagues, yes they say the right things but we need a dose of reality here, if they were all as good as you seem to think they are, why are they still at Raith (and I include the players in that)
I happen to think another year wouldn’t be too bad, but jezzzzzzzzz.

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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 9063
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potential reasons for said slump.
Curse of the manager of the Month award again?
Loss of Stanton.
Players who's form has at worst deserted and at best seriously dipped for them (Easton, Byrne, Connolly, Dick, Brown).
Played playing out of their most suited positions (Dick, Millen, Brown.)
A missing defensive core.

Or maybe it's all down to the manager, seems there are a few things/opinions doing the rounds about IM that don't paint him in a good light.
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Competitive goals: Vaughan 15, Easton 11, Hamilton 9, Smith 7, Stanton 7, Mullin 4, Connolly 3, O'Reilly 3, Rudden 3, S Brown 1, Dick 1, Gullan 1, Masson 1, Millen 1, Mitchell 1, Murray, Watson 1, OG's 1,
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stan drew rover



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 856
Location: Work it out!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scotty wrote:
Potential reasons for said slump.
Curse of the manager of the Month award again?
Loss of Stanton.
Players who's form has at worst deserted and at best seriously dipped for them (Easton, Byrne, Connolly, Dick, Brown).
Played playing out of their most suited positions (Dick, Millen, Brown.)
A missing defensive core.

Or maybe it's all down to the manager, seems there are a few things/opinions doing the rounds about IM that don't paint him in a good light.


One reason stands above all other contributory factors - the loss of Sam Stanton. Anyone who argues otherwise just hasn't been watching. In a league where the margins between winning and losing are tight (as per All our league results), someone like Sam makes the difference - positively when he's there and negatively when he's not
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Specky Ginger



Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 4256
Location: Dysart

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stan drew rover wrote:
scotty wrote:
Potential reasons for said slump.
Curse of the manager of the Month award again?
Loss of Stanton.
Players who's form has at worst deserted and at best seriously dipped for them (Easton, Byrne, Connolly, Dick, Brown).
Played playing out of their most suited positions (Dick, Millen, Brown.)
A missing defensive core.

Or maybe it's all down to the manager, seems there are a few things/opinions doing the rounds about IM that don't paint him in a good light.


One reason stands above all other contributory factors - the loss of Sam Stanton. Anyone who argues otherwise just hasn't been watching. In a league where the margins between winning and losing are tight (as per All our league results), someone like Sam makes the difference - positively when he's there and negatively when he's not


Nailed it.
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Northern_Rover



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2724
Location: Granite City

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Murray hadn't had his deal extended in haste, his position would be precarious to say the least.

We left Tannadice five points clear in December. We welcome Dundee United in two weeks time four points behind.

That is a monumental collapse.
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stan drew rover



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 856
Location: Work it out!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern_Rover wrote:
If Murray hadn't had his deal extended in haste, his position would be precarious to say the least.

We left Tannadice five points clear in December. We welcome Dundee United in two weeks time four points behind.

That is a monumental collapse.


It sure is. And to be clear, although Sam Stanton is a big miss, there are far more factors at play here. Confidence is drained, other key players are showing their frailties, the formation tinkering isn't helping, and defensively we are poor as we've been most of the season...
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badpress139



Joined: 19 May 2015
Posts: 2605
Location: Glenrothes

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pant wetters, take a look at yourself? At the start of the season anyone associated with the club would of bitten their hand for from where we are.

There board of directors are saying we are well ahead of where they thought we would be. Results recently have been poor but we are not a bad team over night and we are ahead of expectations.

Next season is our big season, trust all who are running out club. The ones who are questioning the managers contract are insane my honest opinion.
Would you rather have McStupip?
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Castle



Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Posts: 4922

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even without the contract extension nobody could seriously consider the managers position to be under threat. We're second in the league and if the aim was playoffs then we should still be able to just about manage that. The fact that it'll have come after a brief spell of being top will be the disappointment but that was only down to several freak results .
That said I wouldn't put much stock in us being ahead of where the board expected us to be. Absolutely no guarantee we'll be in the mix next season. We're this season's Ayr and look at the season they've had this time round.
By the way who is McStupip?
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Vinnie



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8205
Location: None Of Your Business

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badpress139 wrote:
Pant wetters, take a look at yourself? At the start of the season anyone associated with the club would of bitten their hand for from where we are.

There board of directors are saying we are well ahead of where they thought we would be. Results recently have been poor but we are not a bad team over night and we are ahead of expectations.

Next season is our big season, trust all who are running out club. The ones who are questioning the managers contract are insane my honest opinion.
Would you rather have McStupip?


This

There,s another 8 teams in league wishing the were sitting in our position in the league at the mo
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Northern_Rover



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2724
Location: Granite City

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Square pegs into round holes, team selections and formations that are so out of touch, signing players we dont need, three straight league defeats, throwing away comfortable winning positions before that, out of the Scottish Cup and Challenge cup, a nine point swing to Dundee Utd largely of our doing rather than anything they have done. And a three year deal to boot.

I dont think its unreasonable to expect better from where we were irrespective of what we might have expected from the season. Sometimes opportunities line up for you and this is / was such a season.

IM has played a large part in getting us up to the top of the league, and an equally large part in our slump.
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badpress139



Joined: 19 May 2015
Posts: 2605
Location: Glenrothes

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Castle wrote:
Even without the contract extension nobody could seriously consider the managers position to be under threat. We're second in the league and if the aim was playoffs then we should still be able to just about manage that. The fact that it'll have come after a brief spell of being top will be the disappointment but that was only down to several freak results .
That said I wouldn't put much stock in us being ahead of where the board expected us to be. Absolutely no guarantee we'll be in the mix next season. We're this season's Ayr and look at the season they've had this time round.
By the way who is McStupip?


McPake
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