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Northern_Rover



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2724
Location: Granite City

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get what RZ is saying regarding developing young talent for future sustainability.

However recent experience would suggest that when we do unearth young talent with potential they are out the door to the first decent offer from a bigger club.

Laidlaw, Bates, Tate, Bowie all let go before we got any real return. I'm convinced all of those players would have benefitted with greater time playing for the Rovers but we have or at least had the attitude that we couldn't stand in these players way if a big club came calling. That's not a model for future sustainability.

Let's be honest here we wouldn't be getting 3000+ crowds without a credible title challenge and a probable play off place. I think we have little option but to tap into the current optimism and vibe and give it our best shot at the title or a second place finish and hence a better play off prospect. That means adding players like Ashcroft rather than playing Corr or Masson.
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red zebra



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 2594
Location: Whaur the bridies are

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vinnie wrote:
Geezo,

I,ve heard the term glass half empty but yours is totally empty RZ


Not totally empty Vinnie, but the original narrative seems to have changed. There was a lot of talk about sustainability and building for the future at the start of this takeover, I just wonder if they have got a wee bit carried away because the team had a good start to the season.
I would hope that behind the scenes someone is crunching the numbers to ensure that, if we don't go up this season after all, we do not return to part time football next season because of financial restrictions after overspending this season.
I do still find it amusing that Dundee are so happy to lend us some decent players, it appeals to my twisted sense of humour Very Happy

Second place is still realistic assuming we get a result at Ayr because one win in what, 5 or 6 now, is not promotion form and we need to secure that second place to prevent playing two extra playoff matches. Lets face it, we don't have a good record in playoffs, at least we wont be facing Alloa this time Rolling Eyes
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StarksBarmy



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 4010

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What NR said^

Youth development sounds all well and good but you need to weigh out the pros and cons… for a club like ours, our size, our location…with current lack of facilities, lack of staff….this ‘youth development’ vision is filled with pit falls and requires a large outlay followed by years of financial backing for possibly little to no reward. We are a club from a small town on the East Coast of Scotland…the player pool of youngsters in Scotland is small as it is before you consider we would be at the back of the queue behind almost everyone else!

Outwith the Premier league, the two clubs with renowned ‘youth development’ in Scotland are Falkirk and Hamilton….two clubs who despite having their own academies and years of experience are currently League One clubs, struggling financially and their 1st teams are hardly full of academy graduates, are they?

I’m more than happy sticking with the idea of getting several young guys in each year from wherever else and hoping they develop in to 1st team players…
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badpress139



Joined: 19 May 2015
Posts: 2603
Location: Glenrothes

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last board went down the route of more or less ending youth development. Craig Easton seemed to be doing well in the role he had. I would like to see similar return, don't think it would massively eat into 1st team playing budget.
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StarksBarmy



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 4010

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

red zebra wrote:
Vinnie wrote:
Geezo,

I,ve heard the term glass half empty but yours is totally empty RZ


Not totally empty Vinnie, but the original narrative seems to have changed. There was a lot of talk about sustainability and building for the future at the start of this takeover, I just wonder if they have got a wee bit carried away because the team had a good start to the season.
I would hope that behind the scenes someone is crunching the numbers to ensure that, if we don't go up this season after all, we do not return to part time football next season because of financial restrictions after overspending this season.
I do still find it amusing that Dundee are so happy to lend us some decent players, it appeals to my twisted sense of humour Very Happy

Second place is still realistic assuming we get a result at Ayr because one win in what, 5 or 6 now, is not promotion form and we need to secure that second place to prevent playing two extra playoff matches. Lets face it, we don't have a good record in playoffs, at least we wont be facing Alloa this time Rolling Eyes


What makes you think we are “overspending”? If the rumoured 30% we are paying of Rudden/Ashcroft’s wages is accurate then I’d say they are great deals, probably already paid for by selling Gullan and having him off our wage bill?

I’d like to think the Turner and Byrne deals are of a similar nature?
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Wolfman Jack



Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 10628
Location: Pawtucket Brewery

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

badpress139 wrote:
The last board went down the route of more or less ending youth development. Craig Easton seemed to be doing well in the role he had. I would like to see similar return, don't think it would massively eat into 1st team playing budget.


I can't recall who said it, however there was a quote at an AGM mentioning the Development Squad costing nearly 6 figures to run, if so that is more than 10% of the budget.
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red zebra



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 2594
Location: Whaur the bridies are

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as an aside chaps, I watched an interview with Sir Jim Ratcliffe last night, he is the Ineos guy who has just bought 25% of Man Utd and aims to be the majority shareholder in the future.
He wants Man Utd back at the top of domestic and European football but he was talking about a root and branch review of the clubs structure and operations and he is quite happy to tell fans that it is going to take 3 years before they start to see the team challenging for honours again. It's not about throwing money at the squad (they are restricted by FFP anyway) but about getting the structure right, the best people for each job and giving them the tools and environment that allows them to perform at an optimal level.
I appreciate that things might be on a slightly different scale down Old Trafford way but he talks about walking to success rather than running to failure.
It's worth a watch if you have a spare half an hour and is on iplayer
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 3493
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the comment by IM that we were far from the club offering to pay the most of Ashcroft’s contract is enlightening. While I am sad at the near halt in youth player development that has occurred as the successes mounted this season, it is indeed a natural side effect, as is the squad strengthening. The promotion Arbroath looked to be near grasping a couple of years ago is now a possible relegation, and certainly has some roots in a stagnant team.

1) While we don’t have a reserve team, we cannot develop young players on a large scale. What we can do is nourish a couple of young players, but I do feel Masson has been hard done by due to what has happened this season on the pitch. It’s unfortunate, but it is a reality of our current position/structure. We’re not going to become a money spinning player development Club, at least overnight.

2) However, we certainly need to take this opportunity for promotion right now, IF we can do it without blowing the budget. Should we be promoted, we will have opportunities to expand the budget to allow more development.

3) It would surely cause a need to move up some plans (Railway Stand, various redevelopment matters, facilities work, etc.) that would require spending around both the squad and facility, which is likely to handicap some of the development of youth players for a wee while…we had talked of a B team last season and that became not for another year, at least.

4) Doing work now that prepares us for this in a prudent manner is/will payoff either at seasons end or (hopefully, if not now) within a couple of more seasons, and should result in a more sustainable Club. A key to that is what IM said, prudence with spending to achieve goals…both on and off the pitch.

5) The only loanee in that didn’t clearly address a position of need has been Turner…and he was a reaction to the loss of Stanton for an unknown period. Rudden, Brown and Ashcroft are all at positions of need, experienced players at those positions, and pretty necessary…and none of them were rushed, so it’s likely we got decent terms.
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Vinnie



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8205
Location: None Of Your Business

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Courier Ashcroft requires an op and out for the season
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Franco



Joined: 10 Oct 2019
Posts: 1188
Location: kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wretched news, if true.
Who pays for the operatiocn, us ,Dundee .....or the player ? ( Just thinking back to LV. We paid for the ops but, apparently, weren't contractually obliged to do so.)
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stan drew rover



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 856
Location: Work it out!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franco wrote:
Wretched news, if true.
Who pays for the operatiocn, us ,Dundee .....or the player ? ( Just thinking back to LV. We paid for the ops but, apparently, weren't contractually obliged to do so.)


Not us, that's for sure - he's not our player. At worst, we'll still be due to pay whatever share of his wage we contracted for, although even that could be arguable
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