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Raith Rovers for sale?
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 3494
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2023 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red zebra wrote:
Vinnie wrote:
Why not?

Surely the board make up is based on what someone brings to the table and their experience


This.
Gender, race or religion are irrelevant unless you are a box ticker. What matters is can they do the job. I don't care what you look like, what you believe in, can you do what you are employed to do.
Fed up pandering to the snowflakes


But gender, race and religion AREN'T irrelevent in reaching out to a community. A Board comprised of white males, mostly older, will not have an outlook and knowledge to connect as well with the community unless they seek and receive input from other groups in the community. It doesnt need to be a seat on the Board, but it does need to be a deliberate effort to connect to the community, perhaps by creating an Advisory Board comprised of various respected members of the community to help give the BoD input and to serve as a sounding board for the BoD.
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Armagh Rover



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 5736
Location: Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2023 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TxRover wrote:
red zebra wrote:
Vinnie wrote:
Why not?

Surely the board make up is based on what someone brings to the table and their experience


This.
Gender, race or religion are irrelevant unless you are a box ticker. What matters is can they do the job. I don't care what you look like, what you believe in, can you do what you are employed to do.
Fed up pandering to the snowflakes


But gender, race and religion AREN'T irrelevent in reaching out to a community. A Board comprised of white males, mostly older, will not have an outlook and knowledge to connect as well with the community unless they seek and receive input from other groups in the community. It doesnt need to be a seat on the Board, but it does need to be a deliberate effort to connect to the community, perhaps by creating an Advisory Board comprised of various respected members of the community to help give the BoD input and to serve as a sounding board for the BoD.


Gie the new owners a chance to get their feet under the table for gawds sake
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Strathallan Rover



Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

red zebra wrote:
Vinnie wrote:
Why not?

Surely the board make up is based on what someone brings to the table and their experience


This.
Gender, race or religion are irrelevant unless you are a box ticker. What matters is can they do the job. I don't care what you look like, what you believe in, can you do what you are employed to do.
Fed up pandering to the snowflakes


Spot on.
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red zebra



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 2594
Location: Whaur the bridies are

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TxRover wrote:
red zebra wrote:
Vinnie wrote:
Why not?

Surely the board make up is based on what someone brings to the table and their experience


This.
Gender, race or religion are irrelevant unless you are a box ticker. What matters is can they do the job. I don't care what you look like, what you believe in, can you do what you are employed to do.
Fed up pandering to the snowflakes


But gender, race and religion AREN'T irrelevent in reaching out to a community. A Board comprised of white males, mostly older, will not have an outlook and knowledge to connect as well with the community unless they seek and receive input from other groups in the community. It doesnt need to be a seat on the Board, but it does need to be a deliberate effort to connect to the community, perhaps by creating an Advisory Board comprised of various respected members of the community to help give the BoD input and to serve as a sounding board for the BoD.


You have done a better job of countering your own argument than I could have there Tex, and your comment "will not have an outlook and knowledge to connect as well with the community" is making terribly stereotypical assumptions about people I assume you don't even know.

Happy to argue the point and I know you do like to postulate, but lets stick to facts.

As one of your countrymen once put it:
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

Donald Rumsfeld


Lets stick to known knowns eh
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Specky Ginger



Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 4256
Location: Dysart

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said RZ.

The last thing we need is for the club to become some sort of social engineering experiment.

Best people for the job, regardless of creed, colour, gender or religion.
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Heilan Rover



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 596
Location: Lorient

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TxRover wrote:
red zebra wrote:
Vinnie wrote:
Why not?

Surely the board make up is based on what someone brings to the table and their experience


This.
Gender, race or religion are irrelevant unless you are a box ticker. What matters is can they do the job. I don't care what you look like, what you believe in, can you do what you are employed to do.
Fed up pandering to the snowflakes


But gender, race and religion AREN'T irrelevent in reaching out to a community. A Board comprised of white males, mostly older, will not have an outlook and knowledge to connect as well with the community unless they seek and receive input from other groups in the community. It doesnt need to be a seat on the Board, but it does need to be a deliberate effort to connect to the community, perhaps by creating an Advisory Board comprised of various respected members of the community to help give the BoD input and to serve as a sounding board for the BoD.

Tex This is the sort of disjointed woke thinking that is currently ruining all our lives, the country in which we live, and dare I say it, the sport we all love!

You are advocating, "Another Committee to advise our Board, which in effect is already a Committee!"

Let us have the right people for the Job. Irrespective of their sex, colour, class, or creed. Then allow them to do that job uninterrupted and without any sign of woke interference.

If the job is being done properly, then fans will return. However I have to agree with some previous posts in that it needs to be working on the pitch too. An "Enjoyable Match Day Experience", as the new board seem be using as their mantra, must include a half decent performance from our team, which let's face it, is the reason we go to watch the Rovers in the first instance is it not?

I cannot agree with Mr Barrowman's statement on RTV when he said: "It's all about being proud to come along to support Raith Rovers, and what happens between 3 and 5 on a Saturday shouldn't really matter." (Tex, that is at 32:50 approx on the video) He surely cannot honestly believe that? He also went on to say "The Board have no control over what happens on the Pitch." REALLY?

So hypothetically if they carry out all the changes, the crowds return in their droves, and we are still being gubbed on the Pitch, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Board? C'mon Mr Barrowman. When this has happened in other clubs the fans (your potential customers) start chanting and singing "Sack the Board". So some responsibility must come from the Board room.

Having said all of this, I fully appreciate the Business side of the club MUST improve or we the supporters will simply no longer have a club to support. I therefore applaud and support all the ideas, changes, and effort that the new guys are recommending.

However we cannot lose sight of the Core Product supplied by Raith Rovers which is in effect to supply a half decent football team for the Fans (customers) to support. Yes. Of course we need to dramatically change the way we carry out our off field business, However both MUST run in Tandem, and there're should be no shifting of responsibility for what happens on the Pitch away from the board at this very early stage.

For the avoidance of doubt Mr Barrowman. The Board most definitely are ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch, and by definition therefore ought to have control over these matters. The Fans will surely think so.
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Franco



Joined: 10 Oct 2019
Posts: 1190
Location: kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, HR, I too picked up on Andrew Barrowman's apparent disconnect between providing a good match day experience and success in the park. Ultimately ( most) folk won't come on a regular basis if the football is continuing dross.
But I do like the idea of building a sustainable foundation for,ultimately, survival in the Premiership and am willing to accept that this will take time and effort.
RZ and pals, I am no snowflake and rarely could be described as woke, certainly not either by my wife and children of both sexes nor close friends. But nothing will shift me from my belief that it was a forward step for the Club to re-introduce women to the Board,as they can bring a different perspective. I like John Sim's drive to make Raith a community club and I also look forward to the day that women will feel sufficiently at home at The Rovers to play again in a Raith Rovers Women's team.
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Gary Parker
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1779
Location: About half way between the place I was and the place I intend to be

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean technically the board cannot control what goes on on the pitch between 3pm and 5pm, unless its the Juventus board we've got now?

They can control, or at least have some say in who is on the pitch and who is in charge of that, but as for what goes on, only the players can try to control that.

My take on the discussion was simply, put the infrastructure and revenue streams in place to generate more money for the club and the playing side will benefit from that too. They're not here to dump bigger budgets into the playing side without it being self sustaining and regenerative.

No one person is putting hand in pocket to finance the playing side themselves, and neither they should, that has to come from the club being able to fund itself and to do that we need more people to turn up (current attendance week on week is pretty poor) and take advantage of the opportunities that come our way off the pitch. Its the only available model in the SFL these days.
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Heilan Rover



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 596
Location: Lorient

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franco and GP. I understand what you both say and even agree with most of it.

What Mr Barrowman said GP was, "What happens between 3 and 5 on a Saturday shouldn't really matter". In my view as a fan, it most definitely should.

Clearly the Board are not out there kicking a ball, so during this time frame cannot change anything. However it remains their overall responsibility to ensure the management team they have chosen who's duties are to choose the squad then choose the team and instigate the game tactics, are indeed capable of performing these tasks and therein lies the Boards responsibility.

I simply think the presentation might have benefited from an acknowledgement of their immediate plans being to bolster the infrastructure first, then concentrate on the on field department later. In not doing so they run the risk of Fans patience running out if on field performances do not improve. Sadly it looks to me like they are setting our expectations to not blame them if it all goes wrong on the pitch. This is a very negative use of the powerful tool that is expectation management.
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 3494
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’re assuming the advice I suggest the Board needs is regarding players and playing activities, it isn’t. It’s about being a Community Club. So I “don’t know the community”, really, what do you mean? You really mean I don’t know the people who attend matches, don’t you? The reality is the people in charge now have a larger vision, and a vision that will lift the Rovers with it.

Let’s do a little diving:

Kirkcaldy and Dysart alone, a little over 50,000 people in 2022. Of those, 18.5% <15>64. So we have a large older population, which means things like listening to disabled fans who have trouble attending is important, for instance. We also know this population is overwhelmingly on a fixed income, so we need to tailor our appeal to them…AND because of this large population, the Community Foundation has several programs to reach out to this age group…often with Club tie-ins (food delivery’s recently).

51.7% of the population is female, you are at a game, how are we doing attracting and retaining female fans? That’s a place where an Advisory Board can help a group of older white males create appeal to females at Starks Park and around the Club. Why do you think a point in the interview was we need a competitive Ladies Team again? Get the girls and their moms interested in those games and start attracting them to the men’s team matches. Why do you think teams try family sections?

There’s also a 2% Asian and 1% Other population, which is 1,500 people in the immediate area, and that’s another group both the Foundation and the Club can connect better with.

The most bothersome figure is that 33% of the population is defined as financially deprived. This again is an area where the Foundation will be critical, but the Club can help. Take the pathway Barrowman talks about, potentially a third plus of the kids participating in that pathway will be from these families. The pathway will be about reaching out to kids like that, helping them (and their families) while possibly finding us future players. Kids playing football, and getting a warm meal, aren’t out getting in or causing trouble.

So call me a snowflake, or whatever you want, but the key to building Raith Rovers up is everyone in the community, not just the current fanbase.
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Northern_Rover



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2724
Location: Granite City

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heilan Rover - thank you for putting my thoughts across for which I was called pathetic on the other thread, more eloquently.
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Vinnie



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8205
Location: None Of Your Business

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TxRover wrote:
You’re assuming the advice I suggest the Board needs is regarding players and playing activities, it isn’t. It’s about being a Community Club. So I “don’t know the community”, really, what do you mean? You really mean I don’t know the people who attend matches, don’t you? The reality is the people in charge now have a larger vision, and a vision that will lift the Rovers with it.

Let’s do a little diving:

Kirkcaldy and Dysart alone, a little over 50,000 people in 2022. Of those, 18.5% <15>64. So we have a large older population, which means things like listening to disabled fans who have trouble attending is important, for instance. We also know this population is overwhelmingly on a fixed income, so we need to tailor our appeal to them…AND because of this large population, the Community Foundation has several programs to reach out to this age group…often with Club tie-ins (food delivery’s recently).

51.7% of the population is female, you are at a game, how are we doing attracting and retaining female fans? That’s a place where an Advisory Board can help a group of older white males create appeal to females at Starks Park and around the Club. Why do you think a point in the interview was we need a competitive Ladies Team again? Get the girls and their moms interested in those games and start attracting them to the men’s team matches. Why do you think teams try family sections?

There’s also a 2% Asian and 1% Other population, which is 1,500 people in the immediate area, and that’s another group both the Foundation and the Club can connect better with.

The most bothersome figure is that 33% of the population is defined as financially deprived. This again is an area where the Foundation will be critical, but the Club can help. Take the pathway Barrowman talks about, potentially a third plus of the kids participating in that pathway will be from these families. The pathway will be about reaching out to kids like that, helping them (and their families) while possibly finding us future players. Kids playing football, and getting a warm meal, aren’t out getting in or causing trouble.

So call me a snowflake, or whatever you want, but the key to building Raith Rovers up is everyone in the community, not just the current fanbase.



Zzzzz

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red zebra



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franco, apologies if I offended, but you would not believe how much box ticking goes on and it mostly comes from Government because they need to be seen to be fulfilling quotas.

I firmly believe in equal opportunities for all and in my current role, when I visit schools I actively encourage girls to consider a career in engineering purely because I think they make tremendous engineers and are undervalued as such, but here's the rub -

We actually get more funding for female trainees, we also get additional funding if that trainee is from a minority background, all this is driven by the Minister for Education.

So the temptation is always there to tick the boxes rather because it looks better (to some) than get the right people in for the job.

I would not take someone on because of their gender, race, colour or religious beliefs, likewise I would not reject someone because of their gender, race, colour or religious beliefs, I would take them on because I thought they were the right person for the job, no stereotypes just can they do the job.

If you can get the high heid yins to stop incentivising box ticking, the best will naturally make it to the top.
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
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Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red zebra wrote:
If you can get the high heid yins to stop incentivising box ticking, the best will naturally make it to the top.


Only if the best have equal opportunities, and that’s the problem. It’s not picking someone to fill a role, it’s the importance of providing everyone the opportunity to get trained for that role, if they have the skills…which have to be developed fairly and evenly. Only when all have opportunity does this come true.
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Gary Parker
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heilan Rover wrote:
Franco and GP. I understand what you both say and even agree with most of it.

What Mr Barrowman said GP was, "What happens between 3 and 5 on a Saturday shouldn't really matter". In my view as a fan, it most definitely should.

Clearly the Board are not out there kicking a ball, so during this time frame cannot change anything. However it remains their overall responsibility to ensure the management team they have chosen who's duties are to choose the squad then choose the team and instigate the game tactics, are indeed capable of performing these tasks and therein lies the Boards responsibility.

I simply think the presentation might have benefited from an acknowledgement of their immediate plans being to bolster the infrastructure first, then concentrate on the on field department later. In not doing so they run the risk of Fans patience running out if on field performances do not improve. Sadly it looks to me like they are setting our expectations to not blame them if it all goes wrong on the pitch. This is a very negative use of the powerful tool that is expectation management.


Yeah, I recall what was said, however, I think I took it to mean more along the lines of "between 3 and 5 it'll take care of itself" because the manager will have the available funds generated by the club.

Make no mistake, we can't and I don't believe we are, prioritising off the field over on the field, its not a one or the other situation, but those that have come in so far are all from business backgrounds and know what they want to do to generate the club more income so that we're not making those losses each year.

I think we need to be clear, we're not ready for a push for the SPL, we'd be another Hamilton and not even Hamilton want to be Hamilton. I'd like to see what the plans are, how the progress and how we plan to build that infrastructure on and off the pitch.
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