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Counting the cost
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8816
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:01 pm    Post subject: Counting the cost Reply with quote

I know there are fans who are ready to move on and if not forgive at least forget what has happened, but please hear me out why I'm still not happy to do so.

My issue having supported the club through thick and thin since the late 70's is that I've worked on and off with various Raith Directors since 1999 to raise funds and drag the club forward from time when we had no cash and the taxman banging on the door, onwards through two spells in Div one where as a shareholder I sat and listened to a financial Dir explain how sleepless his nights were due to lack of fans and crippling overheads.

All of which make it even more difficult to stomach how all the hard work of those years through all the really sh*t time has been so needlessly written off in a space of 24 hours in January by people who are STILL at the club, 4 people all of whom were made acutely aware of the fall out but chose to crassly ignore it.

I've checked old balance sheets and cant find the exact info I would like but I reckon (conservatively) on the following annual losses in revenue/finance going forward:

Clyde transfer fee £60,000
D. Goodwillie, wages £134,000. (134 weeks at £1k/week)
Val McD Stand Spon' £10,000
Val, Shirt Spons'. £10,000
TAG, Shirt Spons'. £10,000
Season ticket sales. £10,000 (if around 300 fans don't renew)
Walk up fans £10,000 (reduced home and away fans)
50/50 reduction £5,000
Hospitality losses. £5,000
Fans monthly payments £20,000
Rory Lotto. £5000
Various £30,000 (various fundraising clubs who may ring fence payments).

By my reckoning the initial cost (this season) will be around £200,000. The legacy is a potential hangover in reduced income that will take years to rebuild to rebuild to former levels. The figures above are estimates but may in some cases be quite conservative, even if they aren't on the conservative side it's a drop in income of over £100,000 per year.
It can be argued that sponsors can be replaced but surely it'd have been better not to ostracise the existing sponsors and add to them?

With better access, proper calculation of the exact losses would be easy enough but what cannot be reckoned is the damage to reputation nor the hurt felt to individuals who walked away feeling let down and that their efforts have all been for nothing. Some of the volunteers I spoke to in the last 2 weeks have mentioned feeling of emptiness and loss they would normally associate with the death of someone, might sound melodramatic to some, but I now have a feeling of numbness and ambivalence that I know what they mean.

There is a solution though. I reckon if Mssrs Sim, Sinton, Morgan and MacDonald were to appear publicly (Raith Tv at worst but better in a public hall) apologise and then offer to front up £75k each to jointly replace the £300,000 that the accounts will be short over the following 12 months, that'd go some way to showing just how sorry they are.

Not asking for blood, not wanting them to walk about in sack-cloth and ashes, not even needing them all removed! Just desperate to see REAL contrition and accountability for a failure on a scale not seen at Starks Park since Claude Anelka was appointed.
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 2646
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eloquent and very clear, Scotty, thank you.

I love the data we have here, and it shows just how badly this decision may have hamstrung RRFC. I think that a public airing of what they were thinking, and the process that occurred, will be necessary for a goodly number of volunteers and fans to return. Until the details of who ignored what, and who contacted, who are revealed, there will be argument, speculation and dissent.

An independent post-mortem is an absolute necessity now that the BoD and Owner have shown no inclination to explain their actions or thinking. The answer is not a wily-nily return to support the club, as that simply reinforces the belief of the BoD that they can brazen this out. If this matter is let slide, RRFC will find itself confined to the lower regions of the league, a byword for self-destruction and blind ignorance.

I do not wish to watch RRFC slowly collapse, and I will not stand by and allow the current malefactors in charge to get away with this stupidity. Iím sorry if you believe this makes me a bad fan or such, but this is much bigger than a week or two in the news.
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Gary Parker
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1761
Location: About half way between the place I was and the place I intend to be

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good summary Scotty. Agree with it wholeheartedly, I also feel some of the values could well be conservative which is even more alarming.

I'd like to see the Directors publicly appear and apologise/discuss the ramifications of their decisions but I can't see it happening. It looks like they are trying to do this behind closed doors with supporters clubs and hoping its enough to appease everyone.

Raith TV would be a good midway solution, a sit down with the BoD and the hard questions being asked of them, individually and collectively, ideally with nothing held back in terms of answers too. I think doing this in a public arena has the potential to become overly heated and opinionated to an extent where it doesn't hold any value as its lost in among the noise.
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8816
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary Parker wrote:

Raith TV would be a good midway solution, a sit down with the BoD and the hard questions being asked of them, individually and collectively, ideally with nothing held back in terms of answers too. I think doing this in a public arena has the potential to become overly heated and opinionated to an extent where it doesn't hold any value as its lost in among the noise.


I know a public meeting wont happen, they haven't had the cojones to front up and apologise in name so far so no way they be willing to come out in public and face the music. More over at best such an event would quickly become a shouting match and at worse a blood bath so they'll want some level of control.
That doesn't mean they should get off not facing difficult questions, a live Q & A on Raith Tv with all the directors on show facing questions both sent in advance (that they have no prior access to) and questions on the night from email and social media.
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stan drew rover



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 738
Location: Work it out!

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every aspect of Scotty's post, and the subsequent amplifications from the others, is bang on the money. Except I believe the long-term and non-financial costs will far outweigh the shorter-term costs itemised by Scotty [quite accurate, I reckon - which illustrates another point as to how much we've been underselling the shirt sponsorship, as I know it was twice those sums 15 years ago...].

Anyway, back on topic, any review and corrective action MUST be carried out by respected people currently OUTSIDE the boardroom, otherwise it starts to come across as all very 'Tory Party' or 'London Met Police', totally lacking in credibility and in sincerity.

As with Scotty and I feel many others, I may well continue to support my team, Raith Rovers on the park, but I shall have little time, respect or support, sadly, for my football club RRFC unless there is a significant change in approach, along with significant contributions to reparation costs, coming from the current incumbents in the boardroom.

If that stance is reflected to any extent across our Community, then Tx Rover is also correct - it will be a slow and painful slide down the standings over the next decade. That may sound a tad melodramatic, but can anyone honestly say they feel as strongly & positively about RRFC now as they did four short weeks ago? Nope, didn't think so.....
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Armagh Rover



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 5398
Location: Nottinghamshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question, how many of the current board have the wherewithal to make up the horrendous losses that they have cost the club, and if they don't have it ................ what next
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Northern_Rover



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2637
Location: Granite City

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to say I'm surprised that ten grand is all it costs to get a stand named after you and ten grand for shirt sponsorship. Not the huge investment I had anticipated.

On the topic I think there are two distinct factions amongst fans now.

Those that want a full inquiry and heads to roll, and those that accept mistakes were made but want to look forward while starting to build the bridges.

I'm in the second camp.
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Davedingbro



Joined: 03 Apr 2014
Posts: 122
Location: Kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can everyone just give it a rest fed up with your comments
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Wolfman Jack



Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 10012
Location: Pawtucket Brewery

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davedingbro wrote:
Can everyone just give it a rest fed up with your comments


Forgive me for quoting yourself in this matter, I see comments all over this forum and P&B which reflect your feelings.
The board need to take responsibility for their actions.
What they have done is caused division amongst supporters due to whatever stance they take.
Forgive me again Dave if I misrepresent you, but their actions have created an impact on peoples mental health.
Mental health issues does not infer a breakdown, however it does infer a change in the normal behaviour of the individual.
The actions of the board has polarised opinion, but in doing so has altered the emotions of individuals due to their actions.
The board need to stand up and be counted and be accountable for what has happened, not only in respect of the stupidity of the recent signing, but to mend the division that they created in the support that sustains the club.
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 2646
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfman Jack wrote:
Davedingbro wrote:
Can everyone just give it a rest fed up with your comments


Forgive me for quoting yourself in this matter, I see comments all over this forum and P&B which reflect your feelings.
The board need to take responsibility for their actions.
What they have done is caused division amongst supporters due to whatever stance they take.
Forgive me again Dave if I misrepresent you, but their actions have created an impact on peoples mental health.
Mental health issues does not infer a breakdown, however it does infer a change in the normal behaviour of the individual.
The actions of the board has polarised opinion, but in doing so has altered the emotions of individuals due to their actions.
The board need to stand up and be counted and be accountable for what has happened, not only in respect of the stupidity of the recent signing, but to mend the division that they created in the support that sustains the club.


This is a very true take on the festering divisions within the fan base, and the reality is that ignoring it wonít make it go away. Some fans/people have more of a dog in this hunt than others. Roughly 20% of women and 5% of men (in the UK) have experienced some form of sexual assault as an adult, that makes it a very real matter to lots of people. Those to whom this fiasco brought up memories, feeling or hurt need to understand why this decision occurred and why it wonít reoccurÖasking them to pipe down is downright offensive, but I assume you didnít realize the huge extent of this crisis and didnít mean it as offensive.
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Franco



Joined: 10 Oct 2019
Posts: 957
Location: kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, WJ, one of the sad aspects of the fallout from the decision to sign DG, is the fragmentation
of the Raith fanbase. How that will be resolved, if indeed it can be, is beyond me. The reuniting force, the one thing that the factions
have in common ,hopefully, is a love of The Rovers and a strong desire to see Raith Rovers survive and thrive.
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Big Alex



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 497
Location: Cotswolds

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standrewrover..............can wholeheartedly understand your feelings towards the RRFC board members but I'm unclear what you hope to achieve by introducing your obvious anti English politics which are totally irrelevant to the DG fiasco.
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stan drew rover



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 738
Location: Work it out!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Alex wrote:
Standrewrover..............can wholeheartedly understand your feelings towards the RRFC board members but I'm unclear what you hope to achieve by introducing your obvious anti English politics which are totally irrelevant to the DG fiasco.


No anti-English politics here, simply a comparison of perceived attitudes behind what I believe to be insincere apologies, not for harm caused but for being caught out
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THE RED



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 2229
Location: Kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern_Rover wrote:
Have to say I'm surprised that ten grand is all it costs to get a stand named after you and ten grand for shirt sponsorship. Not the huge investment I had anticipated.

On the topic I think there are two distinct factions amongst fans now.

Those that want a full inquiry and heads to roll, and those that accept mistakes were made but want to look forward while starting to build the bridges.

I'm in the second camp.


Im in the 2nd camp also
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Strathallan Rover



Joined: 29 Nov 2014
Posts: 582

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE RED wrote:
Northern_Rover wrote:
Have to say I'm surprised that ten grand is all it costs to get a stand named after you and ten grand for shirt sponsorship. Not the huge investment I had anticipated.

On the topic I think there are two distinct factions amongst fans now.

Those that want a full inquiry and heads to roll, and those that accept mistakes were made but want to look forward while starting to build the bridges.

I'm in the second camp.


Im in the 2nd camp also


Me too. It's time to move on. The BoD have apologised and i'm sure changes will be made in the summer. Until this disaster, this was probably the best board we have had in living memory headed by an owner who is trying to actually do something with the club,rather than just drifting along. It's time to get behind the Rovers.
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