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Where has our support gone?
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8818
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:26 pm    Post subject: Where has our support gone? Reply with quote

I thought yesterday's attendance of just over 1600 was a poor return for the recent efforts of the team/club. I wonder (I'd like to know) how many people are still watching on Raith Tv both in Kirkcaldy and away support?

In days gone by over the course of the season in this league we had on average 900 away fans. Clubs like Falkirk, Dundee, Hearts, Hibs and of course Dunfermline have brought double that average and the like of Morton brought half of that average. Yesterday you'd be lucky if there were 100 in the away end, so much so that it looked like an average 1st Division away support (90 on average),
So what gives? If the Pars were playing football like us and in our position there would be 4000 at Eastend every game.

I reckon our home support gate is still about the same (1400-1500) as it was when we were pushing for the league in the division below. We have better players and are playing better football than we did then, so surely this should be reflected in the gates?

Possible reasons?
Main stand not in operation, some folks not coming back until it is?
No main stand no hospitality, right there is 50-60 folks missing.
Away fans making use of Tv streams either paid or pirated.
Covid hangover? (People still afraid to come into a big crowd of people)

Then you've got the traditional reasons:
It's a 5 week month.
It's only x weeks to Christmas
(Followed by it's only X weeks since Christmas)
Poor weather (too cold)
Good weather (doing something with the family...but just not at SP!)
It's my Great, Gt, Gt, Gt Grandmas birthday etc...

Growing the core support is never easy but it should be a damn sight easier when the team is successful and playing attractive football, so I feel now more than ever we should be picking up numbers.

Assuming a hard core of 1500 if we could grow that support by just 10% a season then in 3 years we could have a core of almost 2000 and nearly 2500 in 5. Those kinds of figures are what you need to sustain full-time professional football at the right ends of the leagues.

The club really has to get more proactive on this though I'm not fully sure how. If anyone has any ideas I'm sure they'd be keen to hear them.
We as fans can be the biggest influencers, if every one of us managed to bring just 1 extra fan once (if for only 1 game a season) then we would increase the gate by over 5%, if they come back for a second fixture then that's an 11% increase right there.

Perhaps this is too simplistic or I'm too simple and have the numbers wrong (wouldn't be the 1st time!) but just maybe this is an avenue for a promotion or sales drive the club could be looking into.
I'm certain we have had "bring along a mate" day's before, those tend to be the days the team don't turn up, perhaps now is the time to kick that superstition to the kerb along with the clock's going back and Manager of the Month awards being a curse.

COYR.
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8818
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought but what do we charge for a match stream on Raith Tv?

If it's not the same price as coming through the gate (at adult price) then IMO it should be. With no covid restrictions on attending in person there in my opinion there's no reason to have a reduced price for it. I'm fairly sure I have paid full whack for games I have been unable to travel to this season.
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Castle



Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Posts: 4742

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure there is much that can be done other than to keep on threatening to challenge for promotion. In the short term on a one off match gimmicks might give a small boost to the attendance but that won't carry on to the next match. Biggest home crowd in recent years would have been the four thousand or so that turned up to see us beat Alloa and win league one. Except we drew that game and spent another two years in that league. A win that day might have encouraged a few dozen of those casual supporters to become more commited over the coming years. As it was they went away that day thinking I'll stick to watching Soccer Saturday next season.
Even winning football doesn't bring quick improvements. Three days after eleven thousand fans turned up at Ibrox to see us win our only major trophy only three thousand of them turned up for next match against St Mirren in 1994.
For ideas though I sometimes wonder if 3pm on a Saturday afternoon is the best time for football to be played when we are in the depths of winter.
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WillieKirk



Joined: 08 Feb 2014
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Location: Portobello

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday - the Scotland rugby international may have attracted a few. Also season ticket holders can stream without being abroad. I have taken advantage of that and have only attended two home games so far this season. As for the price of streaming I am not sure if itís the same as normal attendance but agree it should be. At other clubs eg QoS it was I think £12 but priced vary. Are season ticket holders automatically added to attendance figure whether they are there or not? Hope to make next home game - whenís that - next year?
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Castle



Joined: 24 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilmarnock, three weeks yesterday.
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Gary Parker
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WillieKirk wrote:
Yesterday - the Scotland rugby international may have attracted a few. Also season ticket holders can stream without being abroad. I have taken advantage of that and have only attended two home games so far this season. As for the price of streaming I am not sure if itís the same as normal attendance but agree it should be. At other clubs eg QoS it was I think £12 but priced vary. Are season ticket holders automatically added to attendance figure whether they are there or not? Hope to make next home game - whenís that - next year?


Curiously WillieKirk (and absolutely without judgement) what has made you decide to watch at home rather than come down to Starks park? I suspect you're not the only one and it is a valid option.
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8818
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like the club to give a breakdown on attendance.
ie, season ticket holders present, all walk-up adults, walk-up concessions for home and away support. Also how many streams sold, perhaps a bit of digging into who and where the the support is and is coming from could help them target where we need to direct our efforts to increase the numbers.

Every sale has a barcode/QR code, surely this info is only a few clicks of a mouse away?
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 2665
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

International support is paying £19.99 a month to get streams. Domestic support gets audio at £5.99 per month, and PPV is £14 per match for video (if available). Note that the monthly subscription gets video lounge access, which includes full game replays, generally the next day.

Season Ticket holders streaming is no loss in ticket revenue, and perhaps just a small loss in concessions sales. PPV is inherently a loss at, on average, below the ticket price the streamer would pay, and perhaps being watched by several possible attendees. HOWEVER, it offers options, and potentially broadens support, so Iíd prefer it stays. Also, domestic fans can use a VPN to appear international and stream matches, technically a loss, but they were unlikely attendees in most cases.

The reality is different groups consume the matches in differing manners. There will always be in person only fans, video only almost always fans, and those that combine the two. Letís broaden the base as far as possible and the fan base will improve.
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Vinnie



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes little sense to offer PPV for £14 when walk up price on match day is £20 for an adult
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wellyboot



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
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Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vinnie wrote:
It makes little sense to offer PPV for £14 when walk up price on match day is £20 for an adult


Surely getting £14 for someone watching from home is better than getting nothing if the individual cant manage or doesnt want to attend in person?

Personally, I live approx 150 miles away and work every second weekend so being able to watch online (Raith Tv are fantastic) has been a bonus for me.

Perhaps the online audience could be added to the actual home attendance to get a more realistic figure
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Tam
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008
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Location: Kettlebridge

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Scotty.
We have better players, playing and winning and sitting on top of the league, or precisely second top on goal difference.

I thought the Rovers season ticket fans are not included in the match attendance?

Its hard to judge but the South Stand always looks packed where we are sitting, but there again I haven't seen a view from the pitch of the South Stand.

What exactly is preventing the Main Stand from opening?
If the red zone is to protect players and management then what a bout the Rovers fans in a crowded South Stand?

Anyway Rovers fans who are not coming to the matches, what are you doing?
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Biggles



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 2131

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tam wrote:
Agree with Scotty.
We have better players, playing and winning and sitting on top of the league, or precisely second top on goal difference.

I thought the Rovers season ticket fans are not included in the match attendance?

Its hard to judge but the South Stand always looks packed where we are sitting, but there again I haven't seen a view from the pitch of the South Stand.

What exactly is preventing the Main Stand from opening?
If the red zone is to protect players and management then what a bout the Rovers fans in a crowded South Stand?

Anyway Rovers fans who are not coming to the matches, what are you doing?

I always thought season ticket holders who attended were included in the attendance figures.
On low attendances, those supporters with health issues are less likely to go to Starks. If they have an appointment at hospital how likely are they to go to a match, with the chance of catching Covid then having to isolate. If they miss their appointment at hospital they might not get another one for months. If they're on a course of treatment that'll get cancelled too. It's just not worth the risk for them.
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TxRover



Joined: 02 Jun 2018
Posts: 2665
Location: North Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vinnie wrote:
It makes little sense to offer PPV for £14 when walk up price on match day is £20 for an adult


There is a huge difference between full drag admission and average admission price. I suspect the average attendee payment is likely closer to the £14 than the £20 as you start to average in concession, child, carer and such. Also, as noted, £14 beats £0Öand Iíll bet we make more from streaming than we lose from non-attendees.
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Vinnie



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 7850
Location: None Of Your Business

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wellyboot wrote:
Vinnie wrote:
It makes little sense to offer PPV for £14 when walk up price on match day is £20 for an adult


Surely getting £14 for someone watching from home is better than getting nothing if the individual cant manage or doesnt want to attend in person?

Personally, I live approx 150 miles away and work every second weekend so being able to watch online (Raith Tv are fantastic) has been a bonus for me.

Perhaps the online audience could be added to the actual home attendance to get a more realistic figure


PPV isnt the issue its the pricing.Make it £18 and pretty sure those that cant manage or cant be bothered will pay that

Better make the best of it anyway as ,pretty sure I read somewhere that PPV wont be available for those in the UK next season(back to normal)


Like Biggles sure season ticket holders who attend are included in official attendance
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embow
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those season ticket holders who attend and go through the turnstiles are obviously counted.
I'm fairly sure I don't think the club do a 'Ross County' or a 'Dunfermline Athletic' by including all season tickets sold (whether they attend or not) in the attendance figures to give the impression that there was a decent size of crowd at the game.
However I may be wrong and await to be corrected should that be the case.😉
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