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social club
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sonofwallace



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 7381
Location: kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: social club Reply with quote

Has anyone got any ideas on where we could have a raith social club outwith starks park as it has been mooted before.I have the perfect place unfortunately its outwith anything we can afford unless we could sort out a LEASE,LET or whatever.The place is NICOLLS i.e the underground bar on the high street and would be perfect for raith fans and could be used by others aswell inc kirkcaldy tartan army.If ever it came to fruition it could be a good fundraiser on a regular basis plus leave the raith suite available on match day for hospitality.We could have live music on certain nights,memberships,sky sports,a committee,away fans would be welcome,eventually serve food etc etc.The place has everything we need but would take a lot of organising and running.Maybe a pipedream but who knows and there is also plenty pubs so competition maybe too strong but who knows. Wink Wink What do you all think am i gibbering as usual or is there something in it ?
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Roy Chubby Brown



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 458
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A man with a plan, sounds like a good idea SoW
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sonofwallace



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
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Location: kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have already got some details about the place aswell as what i already know from going there over the years it could be used by the fan groups on a match day along with others.
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big ain



Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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Location: the lang toun

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SOW, this would be a great idea, however, when i worked for dean entertaionments (kingdom taverbs) he had the lease for nicols/underground, my mate looked into sub leasing it from him after the death of afterdark/bentleys, and he was quoted over 150grand to refurb it, its totally empty with nothing but clean walls n floor space!

wot about old bar none?? (heaven n hell) oposite the Penny thats up for lease again, and would be ideal for a sports n social club.... bar, tvs, kitchen, i reckon if you had someone to run it it would be cheap to rent.
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8816
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Gav, but I can't see this one running I'm afraid.

Pubs are closing at the moment at the rate of 5/day, and if EM can't keep the doors open on the High St then what chance would we realistically have?

I hear what you're saying about wanting somewhere we can all gather and I agree, but the two places mentioned would have to be run as a proper business that took in custom 7 days a week to meet the running costs. Does anyone realistically have a clue what the rates would be for a High St premises? then there's the staffing, lighting and heating costs. Not forgetting of course the leasehold arrangement, you could easily be looking at 1000 a week.

Opening a place for home games only (and the occasional function) is a nice idea, but I'll bet the Underground and Nicolls are both smelling a bit foosty and having them open only once or twice a fortnight wouldn't be often enough for any place to have that fresh aroma that comes with places in constant use.

Persuade someone to give us room somewhere and as long as it's close to the Starks Park it could work (didn't work perfectly in the Abbey or Styx) but other than that it's demolish the R'way stand and build somewhere that we can all use and the club makes all the profit from, and not guys like Mario Caira, Eddie Melville or Remo Macciocia.

Incidentally this was a plan first voiced over 10 years ago by the Supporters Club, who at that time wanted to buy the IMI social club (a big hoose in the ground of the water tank manufacturers place) in Mill St opposite Roans tiles Boutique and run it as a gathering place....wi drink. Very Happy
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Neebur



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1225

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scotty wrote:
Sorry Gav, but I can't see this one running I'm afraid.

Pubs are closing at the moment at the rate of 5/day, and if EM can't keep the doors open on the High St then what chance would we realistically have?

I hear what you're saying about wanting somewhere we can all gather and I agree, but the two places mentioned would have to be run as a proper business that took in custom 7 days a week to meet the running costs. Does anyone realistically have a clue what the rates would be for a High St premises? then there's the staffing, lighting and heating costs. Not forgetting of course the leasehold arrangement, you could easily be looking at 1000 a week.

Opening a place for home games only (and the occasional function) is a nice idea, but I'll bet the Underground and Nicolls are both smelling a bit foosty and having them open only once or twice a fortnight wouldn't be often enough for any place to have that fresh aroma that comes with places in constant use.

Persuade someone to give us room somewhere and as long as it's close to the Starks Park it could work (didn't work perfectly in the Abbey or Styx) but other than that it's demolish the R'way stand and build somewhere that we can all use and the club makes all the profit from, and not guys like Mario Caira, Eddie Melville or Remo Macciocia.

Incidentally this was a plan first voiced over 10 years ago by the Supporters Club, who at that time wanted to buy the IMI social club (a big hoose in the ground of the water tank manufacturers place) in Mill St opposite Roans tiles Boutique and run it as a gathering place....wi drink. Very Happy


In total agreement




Quote:
Does anyone realistically have a clue what the rates would be for a High St premises?


Looking at the amount of empty premises and small businesses moving out of the high street I would imagine extremely high.Surely it would be beneficial to cut the rates to assist the smaller businesses and get the premises occupied instead of lying empty and in disrepair
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sonofwallace



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 7381
Location: kirkcaldy

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you all so why dont some of us look into different places and prices and take it from there.We have a great deal with styx and they look after all of us brilliantly but i have always wanted our own social club based on either STRANRAER,PETERHEAD or for those of us lucky enough to go to turin BORGO VITTORIO.The crazy english fool had a great idea aswell but was laughed out of fife by some but just mibbe he had something for once.Scotty i would want the place open 7 days a week if at all poss as thats how we would make money all we could do is dream and debate. Wink Wink
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Soundwave



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.Hancock or Giggs may correct me if wrong here, but the Torino fans' social club wasn't a pub, it was a community hall which they decorated, stuck a kitchenette in and a fridge, and a juventus top in the entrance to wipe your feet on.

Certainly a good and acheiveable model to follow, so perhaps look at any vacant halls not in use, and get a licence for a bar. Sticking with bottles only would certainly cut costs, plus volunteer staffing.

However, the issue is to whether or not there is a sustainable demand. Borgo Vittoria worked because it was used by a specific group of fans who met there regularly. Would Raith be able to maintain that kind of set up?

And would it be competitive against what the town currently has to offer?

And if there is demand for something 7 days a week, what's wrong with using the Raith Suite?

More imporantly, given the proportion of fans volunteering for essential club activities such as maintenance, fundraising etc. is there enough people to maintain it on a voluntary basis? (more likely it would end up being the same people organising things all the time)

Instincts tell me that it would only really be used on matchdays, in which case would people use it on a Saturday as opposed to the usual haunts where there is competition from other pubs which offer sattelite TV, pool tables, games consoles etc. Certainly for the Junior Rovers there are potential benefits though.

The Peterhead Social Club thrives not from the Peterhead supporters, but mostly from local Rangers or Celtic fans frequenting the pub when their game is on telly. Same with Stranraer. And in these instances, it's because there aren't other/better alternatives nearby.

But if we could identify a venue that was cost effective and resources to organise and staff it then why not run it on a trial basis first for, say, 2 months to see how successful it is before committing anything long-term.
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8816
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a social club to work it would have to be very near the ground (Starks park) or else people wouldn't be interested in going there pre-match. That's where P'head and other clubs with room within or adjacent to their stadiums score big time. We have no room at Starks other than the Jim McMillan and 200 club, and even those org's are forced to share with corporate guests.

Sighting the club away from the ground would I fear put many off coming to it as most folk like to leave the place as close to KO as possible (Aye even you Gavin!) and you only have to look at what happened to the 200 club when it moved to the Charter club in Forth Ave to back this up.
But on the plus side a venue away from SP would be more likely to make money during the non-match times, but as a keen observer of the licence trade (hic Wink Embarassed ) and one that has spent many hours on both sides of the bar I'd be very cautious about going into the pub game now. Quite simply the pub game has seen it's day and every pub in Kirkcaldy is virtually for sale bar one or two. You only have to look at the T'hall tav, Buccaneer and White Heather all in difficulties to see that it's become a difficult game.
Cheers is closing. The Path Tav, Skittle, Harbour bar are all for sale and the Tap o The toon is looking for a new tennant, and those are just my areas locals that I know of.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm pouring cold water on the dream but it's a hard game to make pay nowadays, and if you have to borrow money to start you may as well forget it.

How about applying for Lottery aid to Build something in the Railway stand? Something that could be used for Fife College (Meeja studies / camera work) during the week perhaps?
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soundwave wrote:
D.Hancock or Giggs may correct me if wrong here, but the Torino fans' social club wasn't a pub, it was a community hall which they decorated, stuck a kitchenette in and a fridge, and a juventus top in the entrance to wipe your feet on.

Certainly a good and acheiveable model to follow, so perhaps look at any vacant halls not in use, and get a licence for a bar. Sticking with bottles only would certainly cut costs, plus volunteer staffing.


Philp hall? Idea
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Soundwave



Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 819
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or a community use facility which ties in with the clubs community programme?

as far as I'm aware, Phil Hall is still in active use as there are local community groups that use it.

Issue is still around whether or not people would use it on matchdays when there are better facilities around.
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big ain



Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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Location: the lang toun

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the best option we have is the railway stand if we could get enough funding and permission then being a local resident within 2 min walk of starks i would welcome a footballing boozer 7 days a week...as starks bar hasnt been the same for a very long time.

could we not start a petition or fund raiser to generate interest??? to show how keen people are???
at least if it was in the visinity of starks park then all the money would be rovers money basically, and not 1200 per week to renting elsewhere...

what about local businesses looking to establish a bond between themselve and the rovers and looking for further premises....
the word on the grapevine is harlem/c rooms will be closed within the next year......
Penman etc... would these kind of people be interested in helping a hand with regarding demolition building,
i like the point previsuoly made regarding adam smith college using a room for media studies? would be great, hospital radio? club meets (it football teams/player dances/race nights... these would all go down well within local community....

East end is a fine example (cant believe im saying that) they have legends bar in ther main stand, packed out every week.... used for functions local boys teams nights

keep this going cause we could be onto a winner.
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Vinnie



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 7844
Location: None Of Your Business

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big ain wrote:

could we not start a petition or fund raiser to generate interest??? to show how keen people are???
at least if it was in the visinity of starks park then all the money would be rovers money basically, and not 1200 per week to renting elsewhere...


I would rather see any money from fund raising or from businesses be put into the football club

Quote:
i like the point previsuoly made regarding adam smith college using a room for media studies? would be great, hospital radio? club meets (it football teams/player dances/race nights... these would all go down well within local community....


Theres a venue available for all the above at Starks Park..The Raith Suite/200 club
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scotty



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 8816
Location: Almost Dysart.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A redevelopment / partial redevelopment of the stand would I also think be the best solution.

I said some time ago that a reasonable sized space on the ground floor could be used to house all the fans groups and away support, all in a licensed place that RRFC would make money out of not the EMs & MCs of this world.

If the upper floor could have space for exec box style corporate hospitality then the club really could have a facility that could generate income over a wider period.

This type of venue could be hired out and used for many things not just functions.

Cost would (as usual) be the problem but if it was being built under the plan of being community use then perhaps funding from certain bodies would be available. It would then be up to RRFC to call in investors and give them options on Hospitality to help fund the build.

Easy? hell no incredibly hard I'd say, but only impossible if close our minds and we don't try.
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Scouser



Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking as someone currently in the licenced trade, anyone now wanting to enter the market must have something wrong with them....

Costs and legislation have spiralled out of control over the lat 24 months making it virtually impossible to make money, most landlords are happy just to stay open.

I think the idea of a social club is a good one but must be one thats looked at very carefully and prudently to make sure the figures are realistic. If money has to be spent out at the start, In todays economic climate I cant see it being a viable proposition.
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